Damien Hirst speaks out: "My dear colleague Caravaggio"

"Exhibiting next to Caravaggio, Bernini and Canova doesn't really frighten me... I am an artist too". Damien Hirst is bringing his works to the Galleria Borghese and you can't argue with this reasoning. He is in his London studio in Soho with a tracksuit and green florescent hood; white walls are in the background, spots of colored paint and a steel ladder to be moved when n needed. It is a continuous work in progress. Exactly thirty years from the first formaldehyde shark and fourteen from For the Love of God, the platinum skull covered with 8,601 diamonds and thirteen from the auction that brought in 200 million dollars while Lehman Brothers was going bankrupt, it is now time for new bets, with scorn for danger. In Archaeology Now (by Anna Coliva and Mario Codognato, from June 8 to November 7) more than eighty sculptures, paintings and objects from the series Treasures from the Wreck of the Unbelievable, exhibited in a colossal style in the Pinault collection of Venice in 2017, are confused among the masterpieces of Cardinal Scipione's collection.

In the Caravaggio hall, which the director Francesca Cappelletti first wanted without any glass, the Meduse of Hirst look at the David, the Madonna dei Palafrenieri, the sick Bacchino, the San Girolamo and the Boy with the fruit basket. Further along, Paolina Borghese of Canova has to deal with her replica in pink marble installed exactly on the floor above her. Without mentioning the hydras and Kali goddesses, the Cerberus and divinities with the face of Rihanna who intend to challenge Apollo and Daphne and Rape of Prosperpina by Bernini. It is all a play on marble, gold and lapis lazuli that is sort of a blend of ancient and cyberpunk. The boy from Yorkshire (he was born in Leeds in 1965) who then became King Damien made the critics turn pale and bow to the collectors of the world, counting on going into the history of art alive and from the front door. Without being too obvious though.
 
Are you really not frightened, Mr Hirst?
"I am not interested in any comparison. The world in which we live today is very different from the world in which the great masters who are at the Galleria Borghese used to live. Today being an artist is different."

But we are talking about Bernini...
"Bernini blows my mind. When I saw Prigioni by Michelangelo at the Louvre for the first time, I asked myself:  who on earth could he make all of this from stone? When I then saw Bernini at the Galleria Borghese, I understood that he even went beyond Michelangelo. As an artist I do not believe in genius, I believe in the freedom of expression. Everyone can become an artist. Correction: I do not believe in genius, except for that which regards Michelangelo and Bernini (e laughs). Of course, also some painters, not just them."

Some painters... your Meduse are now next to Caravaggio.
"Yes, of course I like Caravaggio. But then it is a matter of taste. I prefer paintings that are less clean, the dirty brush stroke of Tiziano, Rembrandt, Goya, Soutine, Bacon, Freud. If they asked me to choose between Bacon and Freud, I would choose Bacon. And if I had to choose between Tiziano and Caravaggio I would choose Tiziano. The light of Caravaggio is amazing. But I love things that are falling apart, that are corrupted."

In the past you said that museums are places for dead artists. Now you are at the Galleria Borghese.
"When I said that I was too young, I had no sense of time. At that time I used to also say that I did not trust people who did not smoke. Now that I have stopped smoking I can say that I love museums and that I do not trust people who smoke."

Is it true that you understood that you were an artist when, as a child, you gave your mother a drawing and she hung it? All children draw.
"Yes, my mother put on the fridge. It is true: all children draw, but then they stop. I never stopped."

You received a Catholic education.
"I was educated as a Catholic up until I was 12 years old. I had my first communion. Then my parents got divorced and my mother distanced herself from the Church because they would not give her the sacraments. Fior me God was a sort of Santa Clause. I had a very strong imagination, but in the end I had a hard time in really believing in God. Yet my believing in art is very similar to what could be believing in divinities. It is hard to say, I believe in believing. My believing in art is something very religious. I cannot escape the image with which I grew up. Nobody can."

Is that where the symbols of death often repeated in your works come from?
"In art there is life, not death. I am interested in dealing with what we cannot avoid because we must end up accepting it. And death is something we cannot avoid. I had a house in Mexico where the sense of death is completely different: it is celebrated, in view of an often violent life. In the south of Italy it is partially the same, I think about the Cappuccini of Palermo. There is no death without life. But art must always give back positive energy. Art mus give hope."

Your exhibit is entitled Archaeology Now. With the pandemic everything has become archeology, the present is something completely different from near past.
"We need the past, We believe in the past because it is difficult to belive in the present, even if we touch ie. Fundamentally, the same archeologist digs to give us certainty today. There is not a truth but we must find one. So we must invent one. The idea that is behind the series of sculptures and objects of Treasures from the Wreck of the Unbelievable is actually robbing the past to create a new present, blending the illusion of a truth with a new mythology. And the materials must be authentic. I was at the marble caves of Carrara and I am very interested in working with stone. One day in Thailand I wanted to buy something ancient to take back to England. So I asked a friend if he could find me some authentic pieces, considering that there were many copies going around. He said:  "Of course: we will make them while you wait." Antiquity and authenticity are a matter of time."

You seem obsessed with works in series and replicas. Someone would say it is for economic reasons.
"I love icons and uniqueness. But only For the Love of God, my diamond skull is unique. As an artist I want to involve as many people as possible in a direct relation with my art. I am thinking of the Mona Lisa. Actually seeing her through that glass, in a crowd is impossible. I do not want this to happen with the things I do. Originally the Spot Paintings were supposed to be an infinite series. I like the idea of a process that is endless, a machine that makes paintings forever. When you buy a pair of sneakers, you make them yours, they are unique for you. Even if there are others around. So, my works aim at obtaining the same result: diffusion and uniqueness. And as Andy Warhol used to say: "If people criticize your work, make more."

Exactly thirty years ago in 1991, you created The Physical Impossibility of Death in the Mind of Someone Living, your first formaldehyde shark. How did you come up with the idea?
"Like all kids raised in the Seventies, I saw Spielberg's Jaws, with the right amount of fear. Once I became an artist, I started to cultivate the idea of exhibiting a shark in a gallery. I could have painted one, but it would not have been frightening enough. I was not interested in creating something that would pretend to be a shark. I wanted it to be real, enormous and that it would be frightening from up close. When I met Charles Saatchi (the publicist and art gallery owner who launched Hirst and the Young British Artists), I understood that I could finally do exactly what I wanted. To bring a real shark in an exhibit, money was needed, a lot of money. And Saatchi had it. The only thing he said to me was: "Do it." And I did."

In September 2008, while Lehman Brothers was going bankrupt, you made 200 million dollars in two days by auctioning your works at Sotheby's. What kind of relationship do you have with the market?
"People do not like artists to make money and I did not grow up among such luck. But after the skull - an object for which somebody would have even been able to kill - it became necessary for me to make a deal with money. There was no need to be afraid. I understood that I could have used the money in a creative manner. And so the auction of 2008 happened. What  can I say? It is a crazy thing that happened to me. It was an absurd moment and I was very frightened. Being an artist also means intercepting buyers. It is a joy for me to sell my works: the price has no importance. However the real problem is when business prevails and art disappears".

Is the pandemic changing the market?
"There will be less specultation. Not much changes for the super collectors. More time was spent at home with the pandemic, paintings were needed to put on walls."

How does Damien Hirst typically spend a day?
"I have a routine. Since I gave up drinking, 15 years ago, I work as if I were in an office: from 9 in the morning until 5 in the afternoon. Once I used to prefer working at night; my life was more disorganized. I did not suffer during the lockdown: I painted and worked with no assistants: I was with my children: I love television, watching sports - snooka - and t he TV series: I just finished watching Suburra, Gomorra and Fauda: wonderful!"

During the lockdown, you painted cherry blossoms, like David Hockney did. Are you now a repented instagator?
"No, I used the cherries in my garden in Devon as natural clocks in the midst of the pandemic. Their blossoms set the time. I love David Hockney, he is a great man. We have the same initials and we are both from Yorkshire."

Which artists do you follow with interest?
"I admire Banksy because he made it entirely on his own. Artists usually complain that they cannot be successful and do not have space or opportunities. He did not expect anything from anybody. He went to look for the public and the space. He is a great example. He directly brought art to people, putting it on the street. It is an incredibly generous thing to do. I have been following him for some time now. Once my gallery owner said that Banksy was not important for the art world, I answered: "But he is important for the real world." I respect the real world, the world of art is nothing."

Do you know who Banksy is?
"I met him a long time ago. I think I saw the real Banksy, But if he was then substituted with someone else, I would not be surprised. I also met people who thought that I was Banksy or 3D of the Massive Attack".

Banksy workds in urban spaces with concrete material. Instead you seem more interested in digital art. Are the intangible works sold with cryptocurrency the future?
"Through videogames, my children have been buying virtual trading cards for years. By now we purchase intangible music on Itunes. Now it is art's turn. My next project, to which I have dedicated the last five years, is The Currency, created with the Palm platform. It is 10 thousand works on paper that have their equivalent in NFT digital files."

But shouldn't art be something material and concrete?
"I don't see the difference between a NFT and Fiato d'artista by Piero Manzoni. If Bernini were alive today we would surely make NFT, I am certain. I know: you either love or hate crypto art. Oh well."

In reality it happens with a lot of contemporary art.
"Many say that that they do not like contemporary art, but all artists have been contemporary in their lives. Including those in the Galleria Borghese, even if the works are arranged so well that they seem new. Johm Ruslom said that there is a line that goes from the cavemen to us. We follow the same path. Contemporary art is not anything strange. We do same job as before on a planet that has become much more complicated from a visual point of view. Nature has absurdly become more obscure. Before publicity was not as important. We reflect on how complicated the world is. We are no longer in the times of Bernini, of course, But the artist's aim is still the same: bringing hope, inspiring people and lighting a light in the dark."